Wiki How:Articles for deletion/Lem Villemin (2nd nomination)

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was Userfication. Moving to User:Stalwart111/Lem Villemin. J04n(talk page) 18:09, 23 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Lem Villemin

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WP:A7, fails notability guidelines and WP:BIO. Maybe WP:TOOSOON.

I had nominated it for deletion previously before someone rejected that because it survived the previous nomination (based on void of consensus/no consensus). Apparently it isn't enough to keep it from getting re-nominated. Please comment guys. Mr T ^(Talk?) ^{(New thread?)} 11:36, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Germany-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:47, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Note: This debate has been included in the list of Sportspeople-related deletion discussions. • Gene93k (talk) 15:47, 28 February 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Userfy ~~Keep~~ - looking at the history, a whole bunch of content was deleted around the time of the last AFD. Probably rightly so, given it was un-sourced, but there is more available out there to substantiate an article. There's the ESPN interview with him that is cited in the article. But there's also a couple of drawcard/pro events (for Adidas) that were also covered by Transworld Skateboarding - Paris and Germany including a feature in their October 2011 issue. He was also a key part of a major Adidas advertising campaign - here. There's also a "recruitment" piece from The Berrics - here. He was also on the cover of Kingpin Magazine - here - and received covered therein with a substantive feature article. There's a bunch of minor coverage related to his being sponsored by Cliché Skateboards. My point is, while there might not be coverage in the New York Times, (like most professional skateboarders) there's plenty of coverage in magazines and other skateboarding-specific media. I'm sure the other members of WP:SKATE would be happy to help me adopt and expand it. Stalwart111 01:30, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Scratch The Berrics one - it's coverage, but I thought it had a biographical narrative over the top. It doesn't (just music) so it doesn't do much for us as a source. Will keep at it. Stalwart111 02:08, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

A discussion about the skater should be independent of the skater himself (an interview is not independent).
All of the sources are rather passing mentions of Villemin. This dude fails WP:GNG more blatantly than some of the other article which have been deleted speedily. Mr T ^(Talk?) ^{(New thread?)} 07:16, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Well, obviously I disagree, but I understand entirely where you're coming from. The interviews are okay for verifying certain things but not much chop for notability. But the feature pieces in Kingpin and Transworld surely count for something. There's some content in German publications (him being German and all) but my German is terrible. I agree he's not the most notable pro-skater (most being US-based who have stacks of English-language coverage) but I still think his many feature videos, his few feature articles, the interviews and his professional sponsorship deals suggest he is notable enough to warrant inclusion. Not to mention the fact that he has likely been covered in a number of smaller skate mags (esp. in Europe) that aren't available online. I wish there was a library of such things (though my productivity levels would stall) but there isn't. I'm also starting to think there might be a need for a WP:NSKATEBOARDER to make cases like this easier. But if others think that what's online isn't enough then I'll have to accept that. Stalwart111 13:35, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Kingpin says nothing about him aside from calling him a "German stylemonger". I have checked the transworld pages too, only trivial mentions. The interviews are not independent. If this subject is to be included in Wikipedia as an article he needs to be a notable skater or notable for something else. Trivial mentions won't cut it. Does German wikipedia have a page about this guy? The page about Lem Villemin in german wikipedia was deleted. Mr T ^(Talk?) ^{(New thread?)} 14:41, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I think you're looking at the online stuff as opposed to the printed stuff, yeah? There is a pdf-style version (or something) of one of them. Anyway doesn't matter; have been having a chat on the article talk page too and one of my WP:SKATE colleagues suggested userfication. Under the circumstances I think that may work well. There's obviously no consensus for this to be kept in its current form (which I can accept) so how about I hold onto it for a while until there's some more (better) coverage of the guy? Would you have any objection to that? Stalwart111 23:04, 2 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

No. No objections at all. I gracefully welcome you to do that. You userfy and improve it and then we can re-include it at the right time. Mr T ^(Talk?) ^{(New thread?)} 06:09, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Good-o then, I'll do that. I still think he passes, but I'm quite happy to work on it for a while until the matter is beyond doubt. Stalwart111 07:53, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Is now at User:Stalwart111/villemin with appropriate draft tags and I have kept a copy of the talk page so that all previous deletion discussions can be noted if/when it is moved back to mainspace. Stalwart111 08:02, 3 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, KTC (talk) 09:15, 8 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.

Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Spinning Spark 13:52, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Userfy, and remove from mainspace (it's still there) until there are mainstream sources indicating participation in competition at the highest level of the sport. Miniapolis 16:59, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yep, I think it's still there only because this hasn't been closed. But with three editors now in agreement on that course of action, hopefully an admin will recognise the general consensus that has emerged. Stalwart111 22:03, 16 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.