Zanahary

Thank you so much for your kind words. --A.S. Brown (talk) 15:19, 15 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

On 20 August 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Masonjoany, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that women in Madagascar paint their faces with masonjoany (example pictured) as a form of decorative sun protection? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Masonjoany. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Masonjoany), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

BorgQueen (talk) 00:02, 20 August 2023 (UTC)Reply

On 28 November 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Akazehe, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that rural women in Burundi greet each other with an intricate musical ritual called akazehe? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Akazehe. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Akazehe), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

November songs

today · music

Thank you for a lovely article about an unusual topic! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:31, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thank you very much! Zanahary (talk) 13:54, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

I was about to say the same thing! Rarely see content from Burundi on here! Would love to see your work up at Wikipedia:WikiProject Africa/The 10,000 Challenge! ♦ Dr. Blofeld 18:34, 28 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thank you very much! I've added my contributions to the challenge list and will continue to do so as I edit and write. Zanahary (talk) 02:08, 29 November 2023 (UTC)Reply

On 17 December 2023, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Kangina, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that rural Afghans keep fresh grapes in mud? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Kangina. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Kangina), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 17 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

By the way, I apologize for assuming bad faith at your MfD for No Nazis. I hadn't seen your final response to me until just now (looking for the link where I'd assumed bad faith) and I have to say that your response was warranted. I was being glib and unfriendly. Having dealt with a mountain of trolls is no excuse. You clearly have a lot to offer the encyclopedia and I hope you continue to play an active role –– even if (or rather especially because) we don't always agree. Generalrelative (talk) 03:27, 18 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Thanks Generalrelative, I appreciate that very much. Thank you for your kind words. Zanahary (talk) 03:53, 18 December 2023 (UTC)Reply

Speaking of apologies, I didn't mean to be condescending in my comment a week or so ago. You've clearly been around the block and know what you're doing in those I/P pages. Coretheapple (talk) 21:42, 4 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks Coretheapple, I appreciate the sentiment very much, and I totally understand how contentious topics can push us past the edge of politeness—I’m afraid I don’t remember what your comment was; could you link it? Zanahary (talk) 21:47, 4 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

[1]. Your comments weren't that bad actually, but having seen AE in action I felt a shudder. Coretheapple (talk) 22:01, 4 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Ohhh, that! Don’t worry at all, I took it as a helpful heads-up, and I appreciated it to begin with. Thanks! Zanahary (talk) 22:02, 4 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

OK, good! I don't know about you, but I have found that the wheels of justice do not turn in the bowels of Wikipedia. Because there ain't any. Coretheapple (talk) 22:12, 4 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

By the way, like most humans I am always delighted when people agree with me, as you now do in the RfC re Hamas denial in the lead. Do you think you might be able to physically strike out your "yes"? Coretheapple (talk) 21:56, 5 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

SuggestBot predicts that you will enjoy editing some of these articles. Have fun!

Views/Day	Quality	Title	Tagged with…
134		Yiddish dialects (talk)	Add sources
54		History of the Jews in Nigeria (talk)	Add sources
69		Sentiocentrism (talk)	Add sources
33		Neofiti (talk)	Add sources
82		Beta Abraham (talk)	Add sources
28		Jewish English varieties (talk)	Add sources
151		Sexuality and gender identity-based cultures (talk)	Cleanup
164		History of the Jews in Afghanistan (talk)	Cleanup
44		Judaism and politics (talk)	Cleanup
98		Abayudaya (talk)	Expand
9		Erwin Strauss (talk)	Expand
287		Intensive animal farming (talk)	Expand
185		Antisemitism and the New Testament (talk)	Unencyclopaedic
69		Wulfstan (died 1023) (talk)	Unencyclopaedic
2,042		Anti-Zionism (talk)	Unencyclopaedic
58		Revisionist Maximalism (talk)	Merge
289		Antisemitism in the United States (talk)	Merge
217		Palestine–Russia relations (talk)	Merge
83		Marc Ravalomanana (talk)	Wikify
140		Hitler's Willing Executioners (talk)	Wikify
227		History of the Jews in Canada (talk)	Wikify
2		Dank Recovery (talk)	Orphan
5		Santé Diabète (talk)	Orphan
4		Timeline of the Premiership of John A. Macdonald (talk)	Orphan
32		Meet Your Meat (talk)	Stub
18		History of the Jews in Mauritania (talk)	Stub
25		Holyport College (talk)	Stub
3		Suduhumpola (talk)	Stub
30		Voluntary exchange (talk)	Stub
116		Christian Ntsay (talk)	Stub

Note: All columns in this table are sortable, allowing you to rearrange the table so the articles most interesting to you are shown at the top. All images have mouse-over popups with more information. For more information about the columns and categories, please consult the documentation and please get in touch on SuggestBot's talk page with any questions you might have.

SuggestBot picks articles in a number of ways based on other articles you've edited, including straight text similarity, following wikilinks, and matching your editing patterns against those of other Wikipedians. It tries to recommend only articles that other Wikipedians have marked as needing work. Your contributions make Wikipedia better — thanks for helping.

If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please tell me on SuggestBot's talk page. Thanks from Nettrom (talk), SuggestBot's caretaker. -- SuggestBot (talk) 21:05, 25 January 2024 (UTC)Reply

On 3 February 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Jews in Madagascar, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that millions of people from Madagascar claim ancestral ties to ancient Jews, according to a centuries-old origin myth called the "Malagasy secret"? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Jews in Madagascar. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Jews in Madagascar), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

—Ganesha811 (talk) 00:02, 3 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 9,251 views (770.9 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of February 2024 – nice work!

GalliumBot (talk • contribs) (he/it) 03:27, 4 February 2024 (UTC)Reply

On 3 March 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Eufriesea purpurata, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that a malaria-control program in rural Brazil attracted droves of annoying, colorful bees that collect pesticide (example pictured) into homes? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Eufriesea purpurata. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Eufriesea purpurata), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 00:02, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

How did you manage to do this? Look for the second 'bark'. Shenme (talk) 01:18, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hahaha I have no idea! Thanks for catching it. Zanahary (talk) 01:21, 3 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Savika is incredible. Thank you for creating. jengod (talk) 04:48, 8 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Jengod, thank you so much! I’m really proud of it. How did you find it? I’ll ping you when it’s updated with a great new source I found about the varieties of zebu game played by Betsileo children at different stages of development. Zanahary (talk) 04:53, 8 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

1. I found it through through the best general-interest magazine on earth, which I check daily for updates, User:AlexNewArtBot/GoodSearchResult

2. I am extremely excited to learn about the zebu-child pairs/tiers. This sounds epic. jengod (talk) 05:51, 8 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

1. Cool! I'll have to look through there.
2. Ping @Jengod! It's ready. Zanahary (talk) 03:04, 9 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

"rizicultural mud-trampling" is definitely key, says me, a lady who learned about this whole thing 24 hours ago LOL. I love the panoramic image and placement as well. Such a valuable addition to the site/sum of all human knowledge/etc. Bravo you. jengod (talk) 05:22, 9 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks so much for your kind words and support @Jengod! If you want to take up the Good Article nomination...👀
You may also enjoy Jews in Madagascar, Akazehe, and the table of time-terms (scroll to the second table in the Vocabulary section) here! Zanahary (talk) 01:29, 10 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Zanahary I don't do articles reviews except rare DYK QPQs but I know you'll pass flying colors jengod (talk) 01:42, 10 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hey @Jengod, I passed! My first GA :) thanks again for your kind words. You might like what I’m up to now at Sikidy. Zanahary (talk) 07:56, 1 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

On 27 March 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Okujepisa omukazendu, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that men of a Namibian tribe "share" their wives with visitors? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Okujepisa omukazendu. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Okujepisa omukazendu), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Z1720 (talk) 12:04, 27 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

		Hook update
		Your hook reached 9,918 views (826.5 per hour), making it one of the most viewed hooks of March 2024 – nice work!

GalliumBot (talk • contribs) (he/it) 03:28, 28 March 2024 (UTC)Reply

On 4 April 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Savika, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that people in Madagascar wrestle bulls to commemorate the unearthing of ancestral corpses? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Savika. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Savika), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 4 April 2024 (UTC)Reply

SuggestBot predicts that you will enjoy editing some of these articles. Have fun!

Views/Day	Quality	Title	Tagged with…
370		Malagasy peoples (talk)	Add sources
93		Democratic Republic of Madagascar (talk)	Add sources
1,336		Ferdinand Porsche (talk)	Add sources
53		Malagasy Protectorate (talk)	Add sources
233		Merina Kingdom (talk)	Add sources
87		Pyromancy (talk)	Add sources
45		Agriculture in Madagascar (talk)	Cleanup
133		Examples of feudalism (talk)	Cleanup
2,393		Two-state solution (talk)	Cleanup
1,615		Supermassive black hole (talk)	Expand
5,778		Madagascar (talk)	Expand
5		Food security in Madagascar (talk)	Expand
37		King of Easter Island (talk)	Unencyclopaedic
48		Beyond Chutzpah (talk)	Unencyclopaedic
6		Kevin Hannan (talk)	Unencyclopaedic
221		Israel–Hamas war protests in Israel (talk)	Merge
143		LGBT music (talk)	Merge
260		History of Berlin (talk)	Merge
281		History of Madagascar (talk)	Wikify
204		Methods of divination (talk)	Wikify
16		LGBT student movement (talk)	Wikify
2		Haddy Dandeh-Jabbie (talk)	Orphan
10		Alicja Wahl (talk)	Orphan
2		Abu Bakarr Gaye (talk)	Orphan
25		Sexuality in Africa (talk)	Stub
4		Andrainjato (talk)	Stub
2		Eusebius of Mâcon (talk)	Stub
28		Seal of Madagascar (talk)	Stub
12		Tygodnik Solidarność (talk)	Stub
6		Psikyɛ dialect (talk)	Stub

Note: All columns in this table are sortable, allowing you to rearrange the table so the articles most interesting to you are shown at the top. All images have mouse-over popups with more information. For more information about the columns and categories, please consult the documentation and please get in touch on SuggestBot's talk page with any questions you might have.

SuggestBot picks articles in a number of ways based on other articles you've edited, including straight text similarity, following wikilinks, and matching your editing patterns against those of other Wikipedians. It tries to recommend only articles that other Wikipedians have marked as needing work. Your contributions make Wikipedia better — thanks for helping.

If you have feedback on how to make SuggestBot better, please tell me on SuggestBot's talk page. Thanks from Nettrom (talk), SuggestBot's caretaker. -- SuggestBot (talk) 15:39, 22 May 2024 (UTC)Reply

The article Savika you nominated as a good article has passed ; see Talk:Savika for comments about the article, and Talk:Savika/GA1 for the nomination. Well done! If the article is eligible to appear in the "Did you know" section of the Main Page, you can nominate it within the next seven days. Message delivered by ChristieBot, on behalf of Sawyer777 -- Sawyer777 (talk) 04:21, 1 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

EVERYBODY SAY YEAAAAAAAHHHH

Thanks so much for your collaboration Sawyer777! Zanahary (talk) 03:56, 4 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Greetings, you recently mentioned that you would like to make the GA review. On the talkpage you can find the current reviwer stating that the review will take some time, about 1-2 weeks due to unexpected real-life demands. I originally agreed to wait for 2-3 weeks, but now a month has passed. Maybe, if you make a request on the Talkpage (make sure to check the formalities), you could take over the review. But please note, that it might take some time, since I myself am currently checkign Wikipedia infrequentlywith best regards VenusFeuerFalle (talk) 15:21, 5 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi @VenusFeuerFalle! I can't currently take on a GAR, as I am focused on reviewing Kartikeya and improving Sikidy, but if Iblis's review hasn't resumed by the time I am prepared to take on a new review project, I will take it! ꧁Zanahary꧂ 05:51, 12 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Howdy! So a little bit ago I started a draft about Malagasy news - User:Generalissima/News media in Madagascar - and while I was able to find good information about history, I've struggled to find good sources about contemporary situation. Since you have a lot of experience with writing about Madagascar-related topics, I thought I might consult your help. I think there might very well be sources I just wasn't able to find here, and I think there might be a number that are simply in French or Malagasy. Thank you very much for your time and your good work on-wiki! Generalissima (talk) (it/she) 17:30, 5 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Generalissima I’m so flattered to be asked! Your draft is excellent—thank you for writing this! I’ll take a look and see what I can find. Zanahary (talk) 17:35, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi, can I just clarify what you mean by missing many countries? Alexanderkowal (talk) 10:48, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Btw I see you're interested in Madagascan history, do you know of any good resources for a general history? Tbf I'm impressed by History of Madagascar Alexanderkowal (talk) 10:51, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Yes! A great overview is Stephen Ellis and Solofo Randrianja’s Madagascar: A Short History. Zanahary (talk) 17:12, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thank you, I'll try to remember to let you know when I've done the draft to their section which might be in a month or so Alexanderkowal (talk) 17:16, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Great! Do let me know; I can contribute. Zanahary (talk) 17:17, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Okay will do, thank you, I read the General History of Africa and the Madagascan history was dreadfully done, my only critique with Wikipedia's history is that the kingdoms on Madagascar don't have their own pages as far as I know Alexanderkowal (talk) 17:19, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

It’s crazy! The Betsileo and Sakalava kingdoms are both on my to-do for creating articles. Zanahary (talk) 17:23, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

That's great, thank you, when you do make them please add them to List of kingdoms in Africa throughout history as it's missing loads of Madagascan ones Alexanderkowal (talk) 17:26, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Will do! (And btw, the word is Malagasy—“Madagascan” is still used only in biology, e.g. “Four newly-discovered Madagascan fishes” Zanahary (talk) 17:30, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Are you interested in oral tradition? I've just bought Jan Vansina's book and want to add loads to the page, do you know of any Madagascan traditions that have wikipedia pages? Alexanderkowal (talk) 17:30, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I am! Check out Ibonia (especially the How to Read a Folktale source), the "Malagasy Secret" section of Jews in Madagascar and Hainteny.

It’s (I think) an unusually complex society in terms of richness of beliefs, oral mythology, ritual practice and the assignment of ritual roles in everyday life. Maybe the origin myths recounted on Savika will interest you too. Zanahary (talk) 17:34, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

thank you, I'm just amazed by how much depth they have, the traditions of the Ghana Empire are thought to have content from prehistory although much has been lost, I try to also talk about the oral traditions when writing African history Alexanderkowal (talk) 18:30, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

You might be interested in the Kingdom of Simien and Gudit Alexanderkowal (talk) 18:36, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Just that it’s got lots of sections for countries within eras that say “this section is being written”, which is too unfinished for B-class Zanahary (talk) 17:11, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

That's fair, honestly I'd put it lower lol Alexanderkowal (talk) 17:15, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Haha yeah it could also be Start-class. I put my own article Split of Christianity and Judaism, which is similarly full of holes, as a Start. Zanahary (talk) 17:16, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I'll put it as start as it is very much under construction Alexanderkowal (talk) 17:16, 8 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

On 9 June 2024, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Sikidy, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that people in Madagascar perform algebra on tree seeds in order to tell the future? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Sikidy. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Sikidy), and the hook may be added to the statistics page after its run on the Main Page has completed. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

RoySmith (talk) 00:03, 9 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Nice meeting you at the Wiknic today! Saw the Madagascar fact in DYK and knew it had to be you. Keep up the great work! BanjoZebra (talk) 01:50, 9 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

It was great to meet you too! Thanks very much, and I hope I see you soon at another WM NYC event. I think I'll be going to them regularly. Zanahary (talk) 05:32, 9 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hey, hope you are doing well. Thank you for contributions! Youknowwhoistheman (talk) 14:32, 17 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Thanks so much Youknowwhoistheman! ꧁Zanahary꧂ 03:21, 18 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi, I noticed that you removed all the recent additions to Ayesha's page. Could you let me know the reason for this? Are there specific sources you need for the "unsourced" content? I understand you're probably a newer fan who doesn't know much about her or her lore, but could you explain why you decided to remove content that had cited references?

Thank you Beminemylove (talk) 12:24, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Also; do you have a Discord or something? Would be easier to communicate through there. Beminemylove (talk) 12:27, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi Beminemylove! Take a look at RS and OR. I understand the stuff you wrote was probably all true, but it wasn’t reliably sourced, and a lot of it wasn’t sourced at all (like there was no apparent evidence of her gaining a fanbase, or that these past aliases are the same person as Ayesha Erotica). This is just how Wikipedia is: nothing can be said without good sources. And it’s doubly true for biographies of living persons; check out that policy here.

I have done a thorough review of the reliable sources about Ayesha, and there aren’t many. None of them contain the info you wrote, because few go into great depth about her past. Unfortunately, Wikipedia isn’t the place to unearth neglected information—it has to have been covered in reliable, secondary sources in order for us to include it. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 17:07, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Hi! Thanks for your response. Could you pleases clarify which sources are being interpreted as unreliable?

Typically, when an article claims something exists, the work itself is implied to be the source and should be enough to verify. However, I provided citations to further verify their existence, yet everything I added was removed.

Here are Ayesha and her friend Valerie acknowledging and referencing Glitter Fruit Juice, confirming that it is their own project and that they collaborated on the music:

• Ayesha's tweet
• Valerie's tweet
• Another tweet from Ayesha

In the Wikipedia article, I linked an archive of the now-deleted Glitter Fruit Juice SoundCloud to additionally verify that they released music together.

Additionally, Ayesha has acknowledged videos from the AustinAsphyxiation YouTube channel (where she released the "Freaxxx" cover) and confirmed the channel is hers:

• Ayesha confirming ownership, acknowledging video from channel
• Ayesha acknowledging another video from the channel
• Directly acknowledging the "Freaxxx" cover, which I added to the page and was subsequently removed

At the time of his tweets, Twitter user AlexZone was Ayesha's manager and frequent collaborator, making his tweets reliable regarding past releases and announcements. Here is a video where Ayesha talks about being managed by him.

The Reliable Sources page states: "A source is where the material comes from. For example, a source could be a book or a webpage." These linked webpages prove that the material in question exists and was released. It also states: "Self-published or questionable sources may be used as sources of information about themselves." Why would Ayesha's own posts and musical releases be considered unreliable?

Furthermore, "Content from websites whose content is largely user-generated is generally unacceptable. Sites with user-generated content include personal websites, personal and group blogs (excluding newspaper and magazine blogs), content farms, Internet forums, social media sites, fansites, video and image hosting services, most wikis, and other collaboratively created websites." So why is MusicBrainz, a user-generated site similar to Wikipedia, cited as a source - but Ayesha's posts own posts and links to her past musical releases not allowed?

If Ayesha, a largely online artist's online releases aren't allowed to be cited and "there aren't many" reliable sources, then I question if she should really have a Wikipedia page at all. Beminemylove (talk) 17:52, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Beminemylove Those sources don’t imply DUE weight—like, if she’s tweeted about loving apples, we wouldn’t include that in the article. If no reliable secondary source has reported something about Ayesha, then the thing in question is just not, for our purposes, important enough to report on Wikipedia. I didn’t know MusicBrainz was user-generated, so thanks for bringing that to my attention.

Ayesha meets the notability standard for musicians to have an article, but indeed she’s on the lower end of reliable coverage. Hopefully that changes as her career progresses. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 17:56, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

So are you also going to remove everything from the 'Discography' section of her page, as most of it hasn't been reported upon?

I'd also like to clarify that just because things were written about in miscellaneous articles or "secondary sources" - by random people like you and me - doesn't make them reliable. Most of the current citations on the page aren't reliable, and if these people don't know Ayesha personally, how are they any different to you or me?

For example, the Wikipedia article currently states: "Erotica took her music off of the internet and stopped making music using the name Ayesha Erotica in 2018 after a fan on Discord doxxed and deadnamed her and another party leaked her unreleased demos." This isn't true, yet it has two citations next to it. Let's dive into the citations:

• Citation 1: Simply states "In 2018, between shifts as a salon receptionist, the Missouri native [Slayyyter]] began posting tracks on SoundCloud with help from Ayesha Erotica, a prolific hyperpop producer who scrubbed her work from the internet in 2018". She scrubbed her work from the internet, yes, but the narrative about it being because she was "doxxed and deadnamed, had her music leaked" is completely made-up and not even mentioned here.
• Citation 2: This article does state "Erotica’s career was seemingly cut short in 2018 after a Discord user leaked her private accounts and deadname. In the confusion that ensued, Erotica blamed an unrelated third party, who retaliated by leaking Erotica’s demos." This is not true, it is a rumour with no basis to it and the blogger does not explain where they got it from.

Beminemylove (talk) 18:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Beminemylove If you see uncited content, or content from unreliable sources, then remove it. It’s not an argument for violating WP:BLP. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 19:06, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

But your apparent insider knowledge on the 2018 story doesn’t stand to disqualify that article if you don’t have a reliable source backing you up. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 19:08, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

Basically: the correct amount of BLP violations is zero. Please don’t add any. If the sources don’t get her story right, you are free to get the story right yourself and, if you can publish it in a reliable secondary source, it’ll be due for inclusion on her article. But this is just a problem of Wikipedia and subcultural stuff like this—the sources aren’t that detailed, and thus neither will be the article. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 19:13, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

This isn't 'apparent insider knowledge'; it's public information and common knowledge amongst fans who were active when she originally was. I was one of those fans. The article Wikipedia is using as a citation for this false claim was written by a fan named Brittany Menjivar, who showed 0 proof in the article; only claimed it. I could add tweets where Ayesha herself talked about why she quit, but apparently, those aren't considered reliable because they're Ayesha's own words that haven't been reported on by other sources.

Maybe I just don't understand the logic of trusting outside sources over the primary source themselves. Would I need to write my own blog post about the history of her career or create a Wiki page for it or something for it to be considered a reliable citation?

May I also ask again if you plan to remove the other 'unverified' releases mentioned on her page, as they aren't backed up by secondary sources? This would essentially mean removing the entire Discography section, as her releases have received very little media coverage. Beminemylove (talk) 19:55, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Beminemylove You seem to think I’m the emperor of Wikipedia. That I removed your additions doesn’t mean I need to personally remove every other violative addition from the encyclopedia, or I have no standing to remove yours. Our policy is to rely on reliable sources. Feel free to propose ending that policy, but I don’t like your odds. I don’t have to remove anything, since I am a volunteer here and I’ve been focused on writing about Giado concentration camp, which feels more important to me than removing Ayesha Erotica’s discography from her article. Maybe you can find who added that information and ask them politely to cite sources for her discography.

You added poorly-sourced material to her article—which is fine; it doesn’t mean you suck, just that you weren’t familiar with Wikipedia’s policies on biographies, original research, and sourcing. Hopefully coverage catches up with her. I removed your additions because they violated policy. If you ever want to ask questions about how to write or research for Wiki, hit me up with a chiller attitude. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 20:00, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

I didn't mean to come across as having an attitude towards you, nor do I view you as the 'emperor of Wikipedia'. I reached out because I was curious about why my additions were reverted and replaced with false information. It did strike me as odd that only my edits were singled out when about half of this page's remaining contents are, by your own standards, also poorly-sourced.

Your suggestion to 'find who added that information and ask them politely to cite sources' also feels somewhat ironic, considering my edits were reverted with no prior discussion. But I know that if I did message this person, they likely wouldn't be able to provide suitable sources for you, as the majority of these songs received little to no media coverage.

You also ignored my question again: Would I need to write my own blog post about the history of her career or create a Wiki page for it or something for it to be considered a reliable citation? Because I am very interested in fixing up her page and I don't know how else to do it.

Good luck with the concentration camp article, but you weren't working on that when you undid my edits on the Ayesha Erotica page earlier today. So if you don't want to be messaged about Ayesha's page, perhaps refraining from editing it would be the simplest solution.

She's been making music for over 10 years now and the coverage still hasn't caught up to her, so it might be better for her to not have a Wikipedia page at all. Beminemylove (talk) 20:34, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply

@Beminemylove You could write about her and publish it in a reliable secondary source. You’d have to pitch the article to editors, and probably talk to Ayesha and her manager or publicist as well. My earnest advice to you would be to just wait for sources to catch up (she’s been active for a decade, but is only growing in notability), but if you think she doesn’t meet Wikipedia’s notability requirements I can show you how to initiate a discussion about the article’s deletion.

I deleted your content because it was sourced to bad sources, and constituted meaningful narrative content about her life and career. Her discography section being cited to no sources (last I checked) is not as urgent. But if you think it should be removed, then remove it.

I’m not saying I don’t want to be messaged—I’m saying I’m not in a rush to go comb through the Ayesha Erotica article for things to remove, because this is a volunteer project, and I don’t need to perfect an article in order to remove obviously poorly-sourced content. That is: you can’t catch me being a hypocrite, because I’m not a cop, and I don’t have a responsibility to thoroughly purge every article I touch of all poorly-sourced content. Removing even one sentence of poorly-sourced content is an improvement. You say the article still has problems—you’re free to fix them, but you certainly can’t argue that I have to do it myself, since I didn’t write the article.

The reliable source policies aren’t mine, they’re Wikipedia’s, and I personally had no hand in writing them. I saw edits that violated WP policy, and I reverted them right away, as is the protocol for biographies of living persons. ꧁Zanahary꧂ 20:44, 20 June 2024 (UTC)Reply